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Imola - Invisable Wall Fix
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iceman
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Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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Location: Lisbon, Portugal

PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:11 pm    Post subject: Imola - Invisable Wall Fix Reply with quote

Hey guys. There is an invisable wall in the middle of the left kerb after exiting the pits. Here is the fix for it.

Fix:
http://www.howc.net/downloads/tracks/rfactor/Imola_Wall_Fix.rar

To install, simple overwrite the old Imola.scn in the Imola\Imola folder.
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fighterpilot
Formula 3 Driver
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Joined: 27 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

funny, i never went near any left kerb after the pits, so invisible wall was gone, but a last minute fix later caused some bad track performance and im out of feature race while minding my own business Rolling Eyes

last minute fixes, no thanks Wink
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edited: on noob patrol
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[stiivo] - empty hand says:
i havent had a bath since november.
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iceman
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it seems that only caused some problem to you and stef. For the rest of the field was fine. Besides it was better to fix it than hit an invisable wall. Thats my opinion. Anyway, results will be up very soon along with the Standings.
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Taevus
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't really invisible if you can see the goddam tree lol. Yeah it screwed up a race each for me and Ze, also some others complained of CTDs and bad frames, so the lesson here is NO LAST MINUTE CHANGES.
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iceman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a last note on this subject.

All objects are listed in the track scene file (*.scn). They are all loaded when we load a track in rFactor. Basically that invisable wall was a tree that was too close to the track. What i did was to remove that tree entry from the scene file. This way when we loaded the track this object wasnt loaded therefore we wouldn't crash nomore. By any means this would cause lag/bad fps/freezing cause simply the object wasnt loaded in the first place. To justify this, only couple of people had issues with it. If this was really the problem all ppl would have this problem and not only 2 or 3 ppl. I had issues with rFactor all week specially with hitting the kerbs and after a clean install all worked. So please stop blaming the "Late Fix" cause that was a good thing to prevent crashes during the game and had nothing to do with the issues that couple of ppl had cause simply the object wasnt loaded, it wasnt listed in the scene file therefore rFactor wasnt looking for it. Thanks :p
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BenAD
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But Hugo, Stef, Me and Zaahir have been practicing on the server all week without problems, yet the moment we through on the update it gaves us issues, it doesnt matter what this thing does or doesnt do, you didnt code rFactor thus you have no way of knowing what bugs are in the game and thus how even the smallest thing can affect the game.

Dont be so ignorant to think that errors have to happen to all people to be a problem, I know in all my games programing expereince, its very easy to get things happening on one pc that you cant replicate on another, computers and games are highly complex things.

Sure it might not have anything to do with the fix, however the circumstances point to this being the case, and thus the problem should be investigated, the problem should not turn into a blame game, in the end as Admins its our job to find out why things happen and fix them for next time if we can.

How else can we explain that Stef was having all these probs, then the second he reverted it was happy.. The key point I guess I am trynig to make is two things:

1- Never release an update 24 hours before a race.
2- Never assume because it works fine on your pc, it will work on everyone or indeed anyone elses.
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Ben Driehuis
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iceman
Touring Car Driver
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Joined: 21 Jan 2006
Posts: 692
Location: Lisbon, Portugal

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obvious i didnt code rFactor. But what i know from Track Conversion experience so far and what i've learned from what others told me via PM that had nothing to do.

There are main files in Tracks:

- AIW - Artificial Intelligence Waypoint - Controls the AI behaviour
- CAM - Controls the Track Cameras
- TDF - Controls the Track Terrain Objects like Sand, Grass, Gravel, etc
- MAS - Handles both the Object and Textures
- GDB - Controls the Track Settings like Name, Location, Pit Speed, Terrain File
- SCN - The Main File where each OBJECT entry is listed.

rFactor when loads a track looks at the SCN file and processes it. It will load everything that its listed in the SCN File. If an object isnt listed in the SCN file rFactor won't load it. If it doesnt load it in ANY circumstances will be problematic cause simple rFactor doesnt load it. That is the main thing you must understand. If it doesnt load it wont cause any problems.

You have the oposite situation if an object is not inside the MAS file but its listed in the SCN File. In this situation rFactor will process the SCN File and will load the entry but since the object is not inside the MAS File rFactor will CTD and give a message like: "Error Loading X Texture For Material X" .

Conclusion:
I'm not a programmer but i do know enough about track conversion to know that the "Fix" wasnt the cause of the problem. rFactor has some bugs like we all know, just look at all the mismatches matt usually have, the CTD's, the disconnects we had, me couldnt hitting the kerbs on Imola some days ago...I agree with you in the point that Late Fixes should not be released specially cause some ppl only join the server 10min after 8pm but the reason why i released it was because it was so small (5kb - quick download) and it would prevent accidents during the race. Enough said. Bring on Nurburgring
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Taevus
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Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iceman wrote:
the reason why i released it was because it was so small (5kb - quick download) and it would prevent accidents during the race.
Well really, it's not the size of it that matters much (lol), it's that it was untested and was implemented less than an hour before the race start. Furthermore, you'd have to be a bit of a spas to hit that tree lol, it isn't on a part of the racetrack where you go.
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fighterpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iceman wrote:
specially cause some ppl only join the server 10min after 8pm


why dont u go *beep* urself, u have no idea the mission i hadta go on to make the time, i didnt really expect installations an hour before an official race Rolling Eyes especially ones that DID screw up my pc, dont care wat u say.
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Quote:
[stiivo] - empty hand says:
i havent had a bath since november.
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iceman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fighterpilot wrote:
iceman wrote:
specially cause some ppl only join the server 10min after 8pm


why dont u go *beep* urself, u have no idea the mission i hadta go on to make the time, i didnt really expect installations an hour before an official race Rolling Eyes especially ones that DID screw up my pc, dont care wat u say.



Ahahahaha...Well lucky for you we started with a bit of delay... Anyway, about screwing your pc i wont say no more cause i proven my point in my last post. If you dont want to understand it fine Razz
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Taevus
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iceman wrote:
fighterpilot wrote:
iceman wrote:
specially cause some ppl only join the server 10min after 8pm


why dont u go *beep* urself, u have no idea the mission i hadta go on to make the time, i didnt really expect installations an hour before an official race Rolling Eyes especially ones that DID screw up my pc, dont care wat u say.



Ahahahaha...Well lucky for you we started with a bit of delay... Anyway, about screwing your pc i wont say no more cause i proven my point in my last post. If you dont want to understand it fine Razz

Hugo, you aren't listening to me, Ben or Zaahir. We recognise that it seems unlikely that the .scn could cause our problems, yet what else is there to explain it?? Racing BEFORE the fix no problems AT ALL, racing with the fix problems with CTDs, FREEZING and SHITTY FPS. Back to without fix, no problems AT ALL again. Now you seem so keen on logic and order, tell me Hugo, is it not logical to suggest that based on that, whatever your "oh i know track editing, give me a banana" comments, that the fix likely messed with our rF's?
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fighterpilot
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, who cares now. we must just never ever ever have little tiny fixes just before an official race without any testing, thats all that matters.
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[stiivo] - empty hand says:
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iceman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Taevus wrote:

Hugo, you aren't listening to me, Ben or Zaahir. We recognise that it seems unlikely that the .scn could cause our problems, yet what else is there to explain it??


I cant explain that for sure. I had issues with rFactor all week @ Imola specially cause of the kerbs problem. And the problems werent with the track but with the game. Why i dont know but the reason seemed cause of using of that patch to revert to v1.070. If it was that for sure i guess we never know. About your problem that seemed to affect Zaahir and Ben also, i do reckon that we shouldnt release last fixes like i already explained in my last post, specially cause of the problems we had when we had all to update to V1.081 some months ago. I guess this was a lesson to take wheather IF the problem was the FIX or Not we will never know for sure but Technically it wasnt cause of the reasons I explained in the last post.
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Fede
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Calm down everybody!

I can understand all your points of view.
As Hugo said, it is unreasonable that the fix produced those bugs; nonetheless, after my many programming courses (that are surely a lot less than Ben's as my subject is math, but are still many) I can say that 1) no program or application or game can have zero bugs, 2) the slightest unimportant change may produce enormous bugs (if there were already but weren't triggered for example), 3) a sum of small bugs may lead to catastrophical results.

So my suggestion is to try every patch or similar thing on all the pcs of the people who'll be using them before making it "official".

And btw, Hugo shouldn't be blamed for he tried to improve things, only unhappy coincidences caused the problems.


Last thing... it can't be demonstrated that "the "Fix" wasnt the cause of the problem", as it's impossible to demonstrate that a program with more than 0 lines of code has no bug.
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Frank Van Laere
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*gets chips (crisps, whatever) and soda; leans back in sofa* *Thinks: Well this is fun :p*
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